rec.gardens.edible passing

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Question:

<snip … (talk about dating myself … <more-snip

Say! You’re not from Arkansas by any chance…are you? Sorry. It was there. I had to say it. : )

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After the results of a CFV are made public, there is a five day period to comment on the results. This comment period was put into the newsgroup creation process to intercept voting frauds. When there is an agreement that the results were not due to fraud, e.g. no one claims that they were, a newsgroup control message is send out by the moderator of news.announce.newgroups. Most news administrators automatically follow these control messages. As far as I know, the creation control message for rec.gardens.edible has not yet been send out. I presume that is will be broadcasted sometime next week. I think that it would be a good thing to announce on rec.gardens when group should be generally available.

It was apparently sent out this past Thursday. It shows up here, and is already doing business. Regards, Bill — Bill Morgan Center for Room Temperature Confusion

Response:

BUT WHERE IS IT ? When I tried to add rec.gardens.edible the program said it doesn’t exist? Cec

And, it may not exist on your server for some time. Contact your ISP, and demand it. Mine seems to pick up everything automatically. Seems like every day there are new groups. The number showing now is 8600. Some of them are even bogus groups, some are seemingly dead, never having articles. Regards, Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BUT WHERE IS IT ? When I tried to add rec.gardens.edible the program said it doesn’t exist? Cec And, it may not exist on your server for some time. Contact your ISP, and demand it. Mine seems to pick up everything automatically. Seems like every day there are new groups. The number showing now is 8600. Some of them are even bogus groups, some are seemingly dead, never having articles. Regards, Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

After the results of a CFV are made public, there is a five day period to comment on the results. This comment period was put into the newsgroup creation process to intercept voting frauds. When there is an agreement that the results were not due to fraud, e.g. no one claims that they were, a newsgroup control message is send out by the moderator of news.announce.newgroups. Most news administrators automatically follow these control messages. As far as I know, the creation control message for rec.gardens.edible has not yet been send out. I presume that is will be broadcasted sometime next week. I think that it would be a good thing to announce on rec.gardens when group should be generally available. Ronald Zwaagstra

Response:

My ISP has picked it up. This morning’’s new down-load of group names picked up 21,182 (!!!) including rec.gardens.edible,and my spouse says it has made the Ford (as in Motor Company) newserver. Pat in Plymouth MI

Response:

The newsgroups fate was, in large part, decided by the folks who use it the least. Oh well, if you can’t fight them…

Your observation is probably right, but hopefully has a positive interpretation. Consider the following ancedotal evidence. On Thrusday last, I noticed a new flower in my garden, but couldn’t remember planting it and couldn’t find the label. So Friday morning, partly as an experiment, I put a description and request for identification help on rec.gardens, triangle.gardens, and the flower & bulb section of the gardening forum on Compuserve. Within a couple of hours I had two confirming identifications from triangle.gardens, and over the weekend got two from Compuserve. From this catch-all newsgroup I got nothing. My conclusion is that there are lots of interested and perhaps interesting gardeners who arn’t following this group. The recent split will help, but doesn’t go nearly far enough. When a busy person visits rec.gardens, they want to quickly scan a restricted section of interest. A specialized area is thus likely to attract more people with specialized knowledge and thus the information base improves. Those interested in growing edibles will now have a better forum. I hope those of us who specialize in perennial flowers will have one soon. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

Response:

……. This is the kind of thing I was hoping to be able to steer around better after the newsgroup is divided. I didn’t realize there were ‘in’ users and ‘out’ users. I hope we haven’t all been too much of a nuisance, barging in on *your* newsgroup.

Response:

BUT WHERE IS IT ? When I tried to add rec.gardens.edible the program said it doesn’t exist? Cec

Response:

Makes sense. Those satisfied, voted for. Those not, against. One would expect those with a better view of the group to post more. For the most part, the regulars are those happy with this group. I voted against the split, but recognize that a split was probably inevitable. Too many people have too hard a time dealing with a group this size. Some of the regs will probably stay here, others will probably cruise both groups. A few may shift over entirely to r.g.e. I won’t be abandoning this group any time soon, as I expect it to continue being an interesting forum. I still expect a lot of the discussion here to be on edibles. Whether or not r.g.e actually becomes a better forum for that topic remains to be seen. Stay tuned. Regards, Bill — Center for Room Temperature Confusion

Response:

Well, it makes sense to me that the people who like the group as it is are the ones who use it and get benefit from it as it is. Those who have had frustrations with the group would be posting less, and they would be the ones who want change. Although I voted "no", it was because I wanted *more* of a split, and I certainly intend to be a participant in the new group in the hopes that it will be a more in-depth, helpful group than rec.gardens has been for me. If it is as you say and the new group will be made up of frustrated non-or ex-posters to r.g, then the regulars will have lost nothing anyway right? It’s even more of a reason that the new group will turn out to be a Good Thing. Laura

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The time has come… I just thought that it was interesting to note that the folks that I consider the regulars around here were by far and away opposed to the split. On the yes side of the vote I noted just a very few of the regulars. Considering the quantity of yes voters vs. no voters I find that strange. The newsgroups fate was, in large part, decided by the folks who use it the least. Oh well, if you can’t fight them… ……. This is the kind of thing I was hoping to be able to steer around better after the newsgroup is divided. I didn’t realize there were ‘in’ users and ‘out’ users. I hope we haven’t all been too much of a nuisance, barging in on *your* newsgroup.

Wow, what an amazing response. I disagree with Rich’s assessment of the outcome but have a hard time seeing how one makes that sort of interpretation of his post. Since rec.gardens.edibles *did* pass it’s probably a good thing that most (though by no means all) of the people who voted for it don’t post regularly to rec.gardens — at least that’s my view. The group passing did not change the charter of rec.gardens. Anyone can still post anything garden related to this group and be on topic. That means that if you like this group the way it is then you can continue on as if nothing happened. Those who don’t like this group and voted for r.g.edibles can post there. I voted against the group for reasons I still consider valid. Clearly, a large number of people disagree and the group was passed. I hope that both groups prosper and believe the fact that so few of the people who voted for the group post here is a good indication that r.g.edibles will prosper and that rec.gardens will continue to be the type of group some of us want. — Liz Albrook USDA Zone 7, Sunset Zone 3 North Central Idaho

Response:

<Considering the quantity of yes voters vs. no voters I find that strange. The newsgroups fate was, in large part, decided by the folks who use it the least. Rich, I don’t think it’s quite fair to assume that because one does not post regularly one is not "using" the newsgroup. I read it every day, but because my main interest is in vegetable gardening I find little to which to respond. Think of it this way: those of you who are not interested in veggies will at least be rid of those of us who are, so you’ll have fewer posts to go through. Cec

Response:

: <Considering the quantity : of yes voters vs. no voters I find that strange. The : newsgroups fate was, in large part, decided by the : folks who use it the least. : : Rich, I don’t think it’s quite fair to assume that because one does not : post regularly one is not "using" the newsgroup. I read it every day, but : because my main interest is in vegetable gardening I find little to which : to respond. : Think of it this way: those of you who are not interested in veggies will : at least be rid of those of us who are, so you’ll have fewer posts to go : through. Ah, but I am interested in veggies, etc. So I won’t have fewer posts to go through. But on the other hand I must say that I probably could have worded my post better. — Rich Campbell, USDA zone 7 (near Dallas) It is possible to have a carefree garden as long as you don’t care what you grow. Responding by email, remove the ‘*’ from the address. This is intended to (hopefully) foil some of the automated bulk junk e-mail programs. Unsolicited commercial messages sent via email will be billed $25/message plus $.01/character, incl. header lines. No exceptions. Sending such mail constitutes agreement to these terms.

Response:

If it is as you say and the new group will be made up of frustrated non-or ex-posters to r.g, then the regulars will have lost nothing anyway right? It’s even more of a reason that the new group will turn out to be a Good Thing. Laura

oMIgAWD! Common Sense….. I will subscribe to r.g.e, as I subscribe to rec.food.cooking. I need tips for growing tarragon, not zoysia! Art, a zone 9 who hopes he will be welcome at the new group. — Eschew obfuscation. —- Anonymous

Response:

Just a second there amigo. I’ve been "using" (reading) this group at least once or twice a week since it was one of only about 300 newsgroups. Heck, I go back to the days of arpanet (talk about dating myself . I just don’t make a habit of posting except on those rare occasions when I think I may actually have something to say which may possibly be of some interest to somebody (or when I hit the wrong button on my newsreader In most cases I just respond by e-mail. As it turns out I happen to have voted for the split for my own reasons, but I would have been perfectly satisfied if it went the other way. I don’t mean this as a flame Rich. I just wanted to point out that, while your conclusion may still be accurate in a general sense, not everyone who voted for the split did so due to some kind of lack of experience with rec.gardens. Anyway, time to get those spring seedlings started. Talk at ya later. Bill | (voice or fax) | ANNAPOLIS, MD 21402 | USDA zone 7 |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The time has come… I just thought that it was interesting to note that the folks that I consider the regulars around here were by far and away opposed to the split. On the yes side of the vote I noted just a very few of the regulars. Considering the quantity of yes voters vs. no voters I find that strange. The newsgroups fate was, in large part, decided by the folks who use it the least. Oh well, if you can’t fight them… — Rich Campbell, USDA zone 7 (near Dallas) It is possible to have a carefree garden as long as you don’t care what you grow. Responding by email, remove the ‘*’ from the address. This is intended to (hopefully) foil some of the automated bulk junk e-mail programs. Unsolicited commercial messages sent via email will be billed $25/message plus $.01/character, incl. header lines. No exceptions. Sending such mail constitutes agreement to these terms.

Depending on the topic, because of the size of the newsgroup, I tend to respond by e-mail. I have a feeling a lot of people do that since I get a lot of responses that way. Also a lot of the yes votes came from people who admitted they don’t have time to read a newsgroup of this size. So their responses would tend to be limited. I tend to read every post except those on deer (have only seen one in 15 years and it was drinking out of my pond during a drought), on cats (I have 4 outside barn cats who think mousing is a artform) and on ornamentals. Susan Wehe

Response:

The time has come… I just thought that it was interesting to note that the folks that I consider the regulars around here were by far and away opposed to the split. On the yes side of the vote I noted just a very few of the regulars. Considering the quantity of yes voters vs. no voters I find that strange. The newsgroups fate was, in large part, decided by the folks who use it the least. Oh well, if you can’t fight them… — Rich Campbell, USDA zone 7 (near Dallas) It is possible to have a carefree garden as long as you don’t care what you grow. Responding by email, remove the ‘*’ from the address. This is intended to (hopefully) foil some of the automated bulk junk e-mail programs. Unsolicited commercial messages sent via email will be billed $25/message plus $.01/character, incl. header lines. No exceptions. Sending such mail constitutes agreement to these terms.

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